Transcript:

Rich Robles: [00:00:00] You know, and I'll add to this a piece that I stumble upon in terms of talking about our data because I was talking to our senior leaders about our workforce, and we were looking at our workforce through the lens of race and ethnicity, and I said, By the way, there's no right or wrong about this data.

Let's not judge who we are today. This is who we are today. Here's an opportunity for us to ask ourselves, who do we want to be? And so when we look at our patients, when we look at the communities where we serve, who do we want to be? And I think that lends for a better discussion about possibilities and lets judgment about our history.

I still want to be transparent about our history. But what can we do with it? Well, how can we move forward and create possibility, 

Andrea Tatum: Create possibility? That's, that's a tagline. I love it. Welcome to DEI career conversations. I'm your host and the DEI career coach, Andrea G. Tatum. I'm so excited for you all to listen to this episode with Rich [00:01:00] Robles.

He's the VP and chief diversity officer at Boston Children's Hospital. We talked about his unique journey into diversity, equity, and inclusion. He shared how Boston Children's measure success in DEI efforts, and he even shared about some of the challenges of this work that honestly keep him up at night.

Now, if you're in DEI already or thinking about getting a career in DEI, or even if you're the CEO of a company, this episode is for you. It is for everybody who is passionate about diversity, equity, and inclusion because Rich shared so many great gems that I think can apply across industry levels and roles.

So let's get into it and don't forget, be sure to like, share, and comment to help us keep doing this work for free. And if you [00:02:00] want to learn more about my career coaching efforts, go to DEI career. com. Hi Rich. I am so excited to have you. Thank you so much for being here with us today. 

Rich Robles: Of course, I am so excited.

I've been looking forward to this conversation. So, so glad to be with you today. Same, 

Andrea Tatum: same. Let's get right into it. I mean, you have an amazing role that you're doing now, but I really want to hear a little bit more about your own career journey. Can you tell us about some of those key roles that you've had that have led you to where you are today?

Rich Robles: Absolutely. And you know what, just like everybody else, my career hasn't been a straight line. It's full of circles. and detours. And, you know, I'm happy to tell this story and see if we can, you know, if I can tell it in less than, you know, five minutes or so. But no, you know, I went to school to do and get a degree in industrial and organizational psychology.[00:03:00] 

What I really wanted to do is be a consultant. And I heard I hadn't heard about management consulting. And I wanted to join them just because you learn so many new skills in a very short amount of time. You get to meet new clients all the time, and you get to be exposed to different industries. So that's where I started my career a long time ago with a firm called Arthur Anderson, became Anderson Consulting.

And I got to know a lot of clients and we were doing a lot of implementations of new technology and, and their organizations. And that really got me into the work around what is the impact on people. And what do people need? Do they need knowledge? Do they need new skills? Do they need to upgrade the talent, their current talent and doing that work?

I also migrated more into what does it look like when you are managing a transition for an organization after a merger or an acquisition? So I did a lot of MNA work and I ended up working, you know, [00:04:00] internally for some companies. I continue doing some consulting work. And then I really got deep into the things that I was interested in, which was organizational design, organizational development you know, to make a long story short, I ended up going to work for bank of America in Charlotte.

So my wife and I were growing a family. I was a consultant and, you know, I just found myself traveling a lot between Monday and Friday, just like everybody else. And we had two kids at the time. And when I looked at what I was doing, I thought. Well, this does not look like my picture in terms of being the father that I wanted to be to my kids.

So I was best out part time dad to my kids and definitely not a part time, you know, husband to my wife. And so I made a career change to move out of consulting and I took on a new role in an internal role. of America and leading work that was more on the organization, organizational development, [00:05:00] organizational design.

The bank was acquiring smaller firms back then, but then they were doing a lot of reorgs internally. And that's where I got deep into that kind of work. And you know, I spent quite a bit of time there. And then I met someone who was leading a small. Firm of executive coaching in charlotte and I went and joined them.

I knew I wasn't going to be traveling Still doing some consulting and one of my main clients became a new healthcare company And they were doing transformation of their culture type of work through the lens of diversity, inclusion and equity. And I really liked the way they were talking about this work and the way they were positioning this work in terms of that's the way they want it to be and it needed to be embedded in their DNA.

I had not heard of anyone doing it that way. I began working with their chief diversity officer. And eventually she offered me a job in her team, and that's how I came, you know, came to be in this [00:06:00] area. Again, I never thought I would be doing this kind of work, and I found out that I was not only, you know, I was enjoying the work, but I found that, you know, we can make a big difference in people's lives in doing this kind of work.

And it was about probably now three years ago when Boston Children's contacted me. We were not contemplating moving out of Charlotte. We were happy where we were. And Boston was not on my radar. I knew of Boston Children's by reputation that when I came to meet with leaders and talk to others, you know, it was clear that their mission was about children and their families and how they were changing lives through that mission.

And once I met some of the folks here, I fell in love with the mission and I knew I wanted to be part of it. I talked it over with my wife because at this point it would be a big move for our family. So we all decided to take on this adventure together. And so we find ourselves here now in Boston. I love what I get to do, but that's in as much as I can summarize, you know, what the journey has been [00:07:00] in getting to this role.

Andrea Tatum: No, that's great. And one of the things I just want to like highlight in what you talked about so often as a DEI career coach, I'm having conversations with people who are thinking about making transitions in their own career. And what I heard you just say was that you really had to look at what was happening as a consultant and you weren't quite having the life that you wanted to live.

Like, You are being a part time father, a part time husband, and I think it's so critical that for anybody, regardless of what your job is, as you're thinking about your next job, I talk about it as like your clarity center. How do your values, your vision for your life, like being able to have time at home is critical.

Like, yes, money is great. And that's an aspect of it too, but I really appreciate you for sharing that, especially as a father, that's a voice that we just don't get to hear nearly enough [00:08:00] of. So thank you for, for sharing that. 

Rich Robles: Absolutely. You know, and you'll hear through the, throughout this conversation.

Yeah. It's like you said, being center in your values. What is it that brings you joy? What is it that, where you feel that you. are making a contribution. You know, if I have found that when I'm clear about those things, that's my level of satisfaction with life goes up. 

Andrea Tatum: Yes, that clarity center. I love that.

I love that. So in the role that you are in now at, at Boston Children's Hospital, when I think about the healthcare system, it's, it's so many different moving parts, different aspects of it. And so in a hospital, you're talking about. Your staff, we're thinking about patients. I assume you're thinking about the families of those patients when it comes to your current role.

What, what would you say is kind of the balance of your focus between those different as I call them as a former marketer, those different audiences, those [00:09:00] different stakeholders within who aren't a part of the organization, but they're who you serve. 

Rich Robles: Oh, yes. You know what? We think about those different groups, those different audiences.

And as you would imagine, they're all connected. So, you know, my focus is on our employees. And something that we talk about very often is to make sure that our, you know, well, part of my major job and responsibility is to make sure that we continue to build a culture where people feel seen, heard, respected, and valued.

That piece of, that piece around feeling valid is very important. Because if I feel like I'm adding value to our mission, if I feel like I'm adding value to the experience that our patients are having and, you know, our children and their families, then I am more, more likely to stay here. I'm more likely to be engaged and more likely to have a high sense of belonging to the organization.

That's very important to us because as we continue [00:10:00] to evolve our workforce, we want our people to find fulfillment in what they're doing at Boston Children's. And there is a connection here because what we want to do, our major, you know, goal is to make sure that when a patient walks through the doors of our major hospital or any satellite location, that they see themselves in our workforce, in our, in our own employees.

Someone who looks like them, sounds like them, who understands their culture, their background. So, and that's important. And so when we look at employees, it's not just about hiring and bringing new talent, but also retaining our talent to make sure that they find a place here where they find not just affinity, but a sense of belonging.

Which means we also look at how is our leadership, the layers of our leadership, how are, what's the composition there of our workforce? Does our leadership reflect the rest of our workforce? So everything is very much connected because if we have a workforce that reflects our patients, our patients will have an amazing experience.

[00:11:00] And that's really good as far, you know, for our business strategy. So we're not doing this because, you know, it's a buzzword. We're not doing this because we're a nice organization, which we are, you know, a very compassionate organization. But this is also a business decision that we have made to become even more inclusive, more diverse, and more equitable.

Andrea Tatum: I love that. And so I heard you talking about, right, when your patients come in, we're talking about children. What are some of the ways that you find that you all are helping to ensure that with the, the employees that you all do have, that they're prepared from a lens of DEI to really be. serve that audience to serve Children because we're talking about age.

You're talking about coming from different backgrounds. How do you help them to be prepared for that? 

Rich Robles: Yes, and you're there is so much more going on around this, but I'll give you a couple of examples. So with our LGBTQ community, you know, we have been empowering our employees to not only understand what's [00:12:00] You know, what do we mean when we say pronounce?

What do we mean when someone says, you know what? This is my new name and how do we treat our patients and how do we respect them and honor and acknowledge what they want? So it's a lot of education in terms of vocabulary language that needs to be sunsetted, you know, it's no longer serving us. And I think that has been empowering for our employees because not only do they understand it, but they can use it with their patients.

And, you know, I was just reading some patient comments yesterday. Okay. And they say, wow, I felt seen and I feel understood like these are my people. So, you know, that has a direct effect on how folks feel when they walk away going, boy, you know what, that was amazing. And it's not necessarily that people go home and go, boy, the treatment that I received there is going to be efficient.

And I feel, you know, I'm going to, for my long term healthy, they probably go home and say, you know what, that, you know, that doctor was so nice. They spoke to me with compassion and love and they understood my name. [00:13:00] Or, you know what, that nurse that we had understood that, you know, I come from a southern culture in India and they know what that means and how do we talk to, you know, doctors and clinical teams.

And so that's very important for us to be not only helping our employees understand, but acquired knowledge on who we're welcoming because, you know, our tagline is where the word comes from. you know, for answers. And so we, we know, and we expect to see people and families, Children from different from different backgrounds.

Andrea Tatum: I mean, getting feedback directly from your patients is It has to be one of the key ways that you determine your, your success. What are some of the other ways that you're looking at what's determining success? Are there KPIs or how do you create a strategy for, for what you all are doing? 

Rich Robles: Yeah. And boy, I wish I had hours and [00:14:00] hours to walk you through our strategy.

You know, we're very excited about this and it comes with ebbs and flows of course of the work. But number one is that we're working very closely with our town acquisition team, because one of our KPIs is to continue to increase the diversity of our leaders. And by the way, just redefining what we mean by diversity is very important to us, because a lot of people think that when we want to talk about diversity, we're going to talk about race relations.

And some people still think that when we talk about diversity, those race relations between those who identify as white and Caucasian and those who identify as black or African American. And there's so much more than that. It goes beyond that. It goes to, you know, your generation, the age bracket that you find yourself in.

Maybe you have military background, maybe you identify with a different ability. Maybe you identify with being neurodivergent. Maybe you identify with a different, you know, your gender identity or your sexual orientation. We've been looking at job level. [00:15:00] We've been looking at educational level. So all these facets of diversity.

Are very important. So when we are working with our talent acquisition team is to say, how are we opening our doors to anyone from different backgrounds in? We just had a conversation with the team to talk about how do we best prepare ourselves when we see a candidate come either in person or on zoom and they're asking for an accommodation.

And so how are we doing some of those things to make ourselves even more open, wider wider doors for our applicants. So that's one, you know, what we call key performance indicators, that KPI that we're tracking. We're also looking at the number of schools that we don't have relationships with today and being able to track, we are making new relationships.

So casting a wider net, because it will be really easy to continue hiring from the new England area. But where else can we go to find talent and talent that we are missing out on? So we're getting a lot of data in terms of roles that are [00:16:00] highly visible within our organization, but we need to have even more of a You know, a line of candidates prepared to take on this role.

So looking at different places where we can go and do that internally we have a new vice president of talent management and we're going to be looking at how do we build not just a ladder, I'm going to call it a path for people who want to find their career more fulfillment. What kind of development opportunities can we provide?

For everyone, but specifically, you know, focusing on those who represent populations who have been historically marginalized or underrepresented, our LGBTQ community, those who have a military background, what else could we be doing for them? So we track that data in terms of not just turnover, but also the movement of talent, who is getting promoted, who satisfier for our employees.

You know, you're gonna hear me talk a lot about data. We're gonna have education. We're going to have, you know, policy changes, [00:17:00] but at the end of the day, we just haven't found anything else that works better than, you know, to track our progress and through data. So data really tells the story and the history.

So that's another piece that we're concentrating on and putting focus is to make sure that we're holding ourselves accountable. So we call it trust and accountability. So the accountability to be transparent about our data, our current data, be transparent about our history, and also building trust with our leaders, that they are, they have access to this data to make decisions with their own organizations.

Andrea Tatum: My goodness, Rich. 

Rich Robles: I told you a lot there, I'm sorry. 

Andrea Tatum: It was so rich with information. I hope that every CEO, leader, manager listens to this and, and, and finds those tidbits of things that you just said and I just, I'm going to just run them down because it was so many good things. You talked about earlier about your employees finding that sense of, value in their work.

And then you [00:18:00] just talked about who all you work with to think about retention, to think about hiring, that you're hiring and talking about diversity going beyond race. And so, yes, yes, yes, yes. And all of those different dimensions of identity that really make up the diversity. And, and just really being so, I love that you talked about trust and accountability.

I think it is one of the aspects of diversity, equity, and inclusion that gets talked about a lot, but is unfortunately poorly done. It, it, I, I see it so often as a consultant that when I look at data, when I look at the information I get from employees, there's so much concern. There's a lack of, you know, this, what I just call institutional distrust.

They don't trust the organization. And those are the things that lead to people saying, well, I'll just leave. I'll go find myself somewhere else. So. I love all of the things that you all are building. You've, it sounds like [00:19:00] you're building a really solid foundation and that's my message to leaders is build that foundation, work on the data, work on the trust, have systems for your accountability in place, and that's what's going to help you to retain and draw in diverse, you know, talent from diverse backgrounds.

So you, you just, you said so many wonderful things. I just had to just reiterate. 

Rich Robles: Yeah. You know, and I'll add to this a piece that. I stumble upon in terms of talking about our data because I was talking to our senior leaders about our workforce and we were looking at our workforce through the lens of race and ethnicity.

And I said, by the way, there's no right or wrong about this data. Let's not judge who we are today. This is who we are today. Here's an opportunity for us to ask ourselves, who do we want to be? And so when we look at our patients, when we look at the communities where we serve, who do we want to be? And I think that lends for a better [00:20:00] discussion about possibilities and lets judgment about our history.

I still want to be transparent about our history, but what can we do with it? How can we move forward and create possibility? 

Andrea Tatum: Create possibility. That's, that's a tagline. I love it. So, you know, we, you've talked about a lot of the positives. But, you know, I think we know that in the world of DEI, it comes with a lot of, of challenges.

So given the, the just mass amount of things that you all are working with, hiring, retention, working with staff, working with children, families, all of these different things, what are maybe a few of the unique challenges as a children's hospital that you see within the work of diversity, equity, and inclusion?

And what are some of the skills that you use to overcome those challenges? 

Rich Robles: That is a very good question. And I love the way you posted because, you know, what do I use to overcome these challenges? I'll tell you, here are the two things that keep me up at night. Number one is that [00:21:00] we have an amazing employee led program, employee led groups program, you know, typical ERGs, and we also have shared interest groups.

And they are growing. We're going to be launching new ones this year. And what keeps me up at night is that there are still pockets, small teams of our employees that don't know we have them in place. And I'm not blaming them for not knowing. It's just that, you know what, where they work. They are. You know, some of them are working different shifts, different hours.

They're not in front of a computer just as I am every day answering emails. They don't, they may not touch a computer all day long. And so, how can we get to them? How can we, you know, I wish I had time to spend one on one with all the teams, every team member, to tell them what an amazing place it would be if they were to join one of our employee led groups.

So that's one challenge that I see. And getting not the word out just about our employee groups, but about everything else that we're [00:22:00] doing for them to create a space where they feel they can be themselves. That's number one. Number two is the sensitivity that has been built, not just here at Boston Children's, but I think us as a, as a country.

And In terms of how do we talk about these themes that at times or historically have been taboos. So, for example, I remember entering the workforce when I got my first job and my parents said, Rich, do not talk about politics, do not talk about religion, and definitely don't talk about race. Absolutely.

And guess what we've been talking about for, or about, for the last three or four years here, with everything that started in 2020. And so our leaders. are not unwilling, it's not a lack of willingness to talk about these things, but there's a hesitancy because what if I say it wrong, what if I say the, you know, what if I don't get someone's pronouns correctly the first time, what if, you know, I'm scared.

I'm scared if I can even ask that question. So [00:23:00] even leaders who ask me, Rich, do I say Latino or do I say Hispanic? Because I'm scared of offending people. And so that's a bigger, a big barrier that we have that has been building for, you know, the last few years. And so what I've been coaching our leaders to do is, you know, come to you.

Your team house, your meetings and open it up and saying, you know what, here's a subject that I would like to talk about. And I'm asking for your grace ahead of time, because I'm probably going to mess up or make a mistake or would not get this work correctly, please let me know how I can say it correctly or call it out.

But I just ask for your grace. And I think that opens it up for not just vulnerability, but a space where we can all treat each other still with respect and being able to with you know, we use kindness, kindness is one of our core values, being kind to each other in terms of how we, we bring this conversations about that.

So that would be the second thing that our leaders, you know, Again, [00:24:00] not lack of willingness, but sometimes being hesitant and sometimes afraid of having the conversation because we don't know how. Yeah, 

Andrea Tatum: no, those are two really great challenges that I think are relevant to many industries and, and, and regardless of kind of where you are, because the first one you mentioned Especially I would say with my clients who are like in the retail field or who are maybe in pharmaceuticals where, you know, right, again, like you said, you're, you're not in front of a computer all day, your sales team, they're out doing things, they're having conversations with certain folks or, right, so I, I really hope that our listeners really think about how them.

Do those challenges apply in your world? What challenges are you facing? And how can you use some of these tips that you've just talked about in thinking about how to overcome them? And I love that. I think it's coming into the work. with asking for grace. It shows a level of humility and curiosity and willingness to learn.

And I think that goes a [00:25:00] long way with people versus being like, okay, well, I got it all right. And I know what I'm going to say. And then people were like, nope, you got it wrong. And it just, it just goes terribly wrong at that point. So I love that you're teaching coaching. I heard you say coaching. Our leaders, and I think executive coaching and leadership coaching is such a key aspect to professional development that really can help people in the long run.

Rich Robles: Absolutely. You know, and the coaching is sometimes very informal, just pulling someone to the side and say, you know what, I, I observed this. Can I share with you and have a conversation? Because I think those are the moments, again, the aha moments. That shifts the way we look at each other, and that's really what makes a difference.

That's really what we want. Can you consider something like you said? Being humble, but also being curious, just like, you know, I told an audience the other day, just like, you know, the great philosopher Ted Lasso is teaching us, be curious. 

Andrea Tatum: Anytime there's a Ted Lasso reference, I'm [00:26:00] in, I'm in. It's my favorite.

So I want to talk about, like, you know, thank you for sharing your own journey and you shared some aspects of how you made decisions. in your, your career. But I'm really interested to know also, you know, for yourself, how have aspects of your own identity shaped your approach to working in diversity, equity and inclusion?

Rich Robles: Yeah. You know, there are different, I can think right now of different parts of my life and different moments in my life that have marked me in terms of how I show up to do this work. And I'll give you one. So I'm originally from Guatemala and I came to live in the United States when I was a teenager.

And when I came to the United States, all I wanted to do is be an American kid. I've been watching John Hughes movies and all that's all I wanted. And so I. Intentionally and unintentionally turned off a lot of things about me being from another country, another culture. [00:27:00] And I came to live in Indiana and in a farm.

So not a whole lot of people that I could find that looked like me. And so I just really just immerse myself into the culture. But it was not until years later that I mentioned I was working for a coaching firm before coming into healthcare. And I remember the first time that I showed up for work the founder, my boss that at the time he introduced me to some prospective clients that they said, you know, I come to lunch with me.

We're going to talk about the firm and you can learn and say, this is perfect opportunity. So when I showed up to the dining room, he introduced me to the prospective clients and said, and he just introduced me as, Hey, by the way, this is rich. He just started with us today. He's from Guatemala. Please say hello.

And that's all he said. He didn't say to them, you know, here's his degree. Here's his experience. Nothing else. I thought that was strange, but I let it go. Wednesday of that same week, we were in a larger group. He paused and said, by the way, please say [00:28:00] hello to Rich. He's new to us this week. He's taking notes.

He's learning about us. He's from Guatemala. I thought, man, that was very weird again. And he did it again on a Friday of that week. And so I went up to him after the session on Friday and I said, Mike, why are you telling everyone that I am from Guatemala? And he just paused and looked me in the eyes and he said, because you don't.

And you need to find out why. And that really, that moment really began my journey of understanding how much I had been looking at being from another culture as a liability without realizing it was my biggest asset. That's the moment that I started my journey of learning to talk about my story and where I come from and how much that opens up the room for anyone else to say.

Oh, I can either, you know, I relate to your story or I didn't know we could talk about ourselves or where we come from, because that's important. And so when I think about the work and us feeling seen [00:29:00] and heard, and also being ourselves, this is what it's going to take for us to open up this space where people are comfortable talking about where they come from, talking about what does your first name mean, talking about what's your hometown like, and so that's why on a personal.

No, that's why this is so important to me. And as I look at our kids, you know, I, my wife is from Michigan. She's from Western Michigan, which is a Dutch community. So our kids don't look anything like her or me. And so we have a lot of conversations at the dinner table around this. We don't use words like diversity, equity, and inclusion, but we talk about like Dad, so what box do I check?

Are we Latinos? Are we Dutch? Who are we? So we have conversations about who do you want to be and how do you identify. So, and I think that's what, you know, the conversations we, we want to have and are having with our employees around, you know, who are you and, you know, you are welcome here and you're unique.[00:30:00] 

Andrea Tatum: The fact that you just said that with your young children, that's the conversations you're having to have at the dinner table. I think for some people, it's not a big deal. It's just a box, you check it, you move on. The fact that when you're applying for a job, one of the first things that they're going to ask you to do, yeah, your name and all these things, you're immediately beginning to identify yourself.

What's your prefix? What's your suffix? Who are you? Where are you from? What languages do you speak? All of these things are just in your job application. And we don't think a lot about it, oftentimes. from an internal standpoint, because we're, we are checking the box of this is what, you know, the EEOC requires us to collect this data.

We have to submit it. We don't think a lot about it. But on the other side, the people who are having to check the box are thinking a lot about [00:31:00] those boxes. And I've shared this story before, but I'll, I'll just share it briefly in that, like, I was an adult, like a very grown adult leaving the country for the first time.

And being asked to check the box of my nationality. And it said, American, this or that. I was looking for the box for black, because it's the only box I'd ever checked in my entire life. And so all of a sudden, now I have to consider myself an American first. But it's never how I felt like I had been seen here.

So, to all the things you just talked about, like how are you seen and how do you see yourself and what stories do we tell others and allow others to tell about ourself, that so resonates with me and I think many others who are drawn to do this work. And so I think, like, it is critical to take that time to explore your own identity, and what you're bringing into the work and [00:32:00] what you might need to leave behind because we can't wait.

Rich Robles: Let's be honest. Yeah, because you were, yeah. You were asking about what skills do I use to do this work? And I don't know if this is a skill as much as it is, you know, a trait and that is, I am very conscious, as much as it depends on me, conscious about how do I show up in conversations? What do I, what do I, what am I bringing with me?

What are some of the things that I need to retire from my mind as messages that I just need to get out to show up, you know, the best that I can be in myself with all the uniqueness and awkwardness and quirks that I have. And being able to embrace that, and how do we build a culture that can do that? And so, you know, that's, that's something that I, I continue to teach as part of my journey of, yeah, how am I showing up to do this work?

Ah, I 

Andrea Tatum: love that. So, I want to just kind of end with one last question, because you've shared so much with us, that I'm really interested to hear, what is one [00:33:00] thing that you wish more people understood about the work of diversity, equity, and inclusion?

Rich Robles: I think historically we have been engaging in this work to embrace how different we are, but the more I engage with people and have conversations and learn about their stories, there's a lot that bonds us in terms of how similar we are to each other than we realize. And I think, you know, that is so disarming, that is so opening in terms of building relationships, that I wish people would just take the time that when we say hello and say, you know, in the morning, say, Hey, hey, how are you?

I'm doing great, doing great. And we don't go beyond that. I wish we take just one more step to say, really, how are you doing today? And to open up and hear like, Oh my gosh, yes, you know what? I'm dealing with anxiety too this morning. I was anxious about X. Well, you know what? When I go [00:34:00] home, yeah, I've been thinking about my kid not doing well in school.

Things, those small nuggets of our stories that bonds us to each other more than our differences. 

Andrea Tatum: I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for sharing all of these wonderful insights with us, for sharing all of your knowledge. This has been a great conversation and I hope that everybody watching and listening, I cannot imagine you have not taken away some valuable gems.

So thank you again so much for DEI career conversation series. 

Rich Robles: Absolutely. Thank you for the invitation to be part of this conversation, and I really enjoyed our time together, 

Andrea Tatum: Hindra. Same. I hope you enjoyed this episode of DEI Career Conversations. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the bell so that you know as soon as new episodes are live.

Also, if you'd like to learn more about our brand new program, be sure to check out the links below or visit [00:35:00] DEICareer. com and look at our courses. This new course is so exciting because not only are we going to help support you as a job seeker, thinking about pivoting your passion into a career into DEI, but we're also going to make sure that you have the tools and resources you need in order to learn how to create data informed strategies for DEI.

How to create metrics, how to make sure that you know how to do the work of DEI by getting unprecedented insights from DEI professionals who are doing this work day in and day out. So I'm so excited about it. I hope that you'll join us. We have monthly community connection calls for anyone who's a part of the program, and you can learn more about it all at DEICareer.com.